they are partially back to business. by business, we mean today, hour 83 of day four of the people's government closed and lawmakers at a stalemate. back to business with the shutdown. hi, everybody. i'm thomas roberts. even as the focus on the hill turns back to politics, the investigation continuing into why a young mom set off a chase that ended with her being gunned down and killed near the capitol. police say that 34-year-old miriam carey was from connecticut, had a history of mental issues in her background and had delusions about president obama. investigators say she tried to ram her way through a gate at the white house yesterday. she then led them on a chase around the grounds and took off towards the capitol with police on her trail, sparking off a chain of events that ended in gunfire. >> i hear boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, as the gunfire is unloading. >> cops just said get down, get behind this car and we did that. then said come back so we ran -- they told us to run back and

come in this building. >> today we know all the shots fired at the scene were from officers in pursuit of the suspect. the capitol police officers injured in this incident will recover. while all of this was happening, miriam carey's 1-year-old little girl was in the back of that speeding car. nbc news justice correspondent pete williams has been following this story from the very beginning and joins me now. pete, what more do we know about the background of miriam carey, what her family might be saying about the possible motivation for why she had come to d.c.? >> reporter: well, in terms of her background, she was a dental hygienist who had been recently fired from her job in stamford, connecticut. she did have this child just over one year old. and what her -- what police tell us is that her relatives and family members have told them that she had a real tough time with the pregnancy and suffered from postpartum depression and that just recently she had begun to become delusional, that she had thoughts that the government

was putting her under surveillance and that president obama was stalking her. so the fbi is still retracing her steps, precisely when she came down here, whether she's left any other written materials that would give some further light on when she plotted to do this. she did not have a gun. she came down here just with the child in her car. but she disobeyed repeated commands to stop. she struck a secret service agent with her car at the white house. she backed into another police car when they tried to hem her in down there at the foot of the capitol. so she seemed determined to keep going. they worried that she was going at a very high rate of speed, that her car in essence was becoming a lethal weapon, that she could have killed people if she hit them with the car. and so the decision was made to use deadly force and she was killed when her car was finally stopped up at the u.s. capitol near the senate office

buildings. >> what more do we know about the condition of the child and how police are talking about their response, how capitol police are defending the use of deadly force? >> reporter: the child was not harmed. it was initially examined near the scene and then sent to the hospital for further examination and is in the care now of washington, d.c., authorities and presumably will shortly be returned to family members. members of congress and the police say that the reaction was justifiable, that the woman was clearly out of control. she was showing no regard for the safety of people around her, and that's why they decided that she had to be stopped. >> nbc news justice correspondent pete williams reporting from d.c. for us. pete, great to see you. thank you, sir. >> you bet, thomas. joining me now is republican senator roger wicker of mississippi. senator wicker had actually taken cover during this shooting. sir, it's great to have you on with us. let's talk about this from your

firsthand perspective because you were walking from the capitol to your office when you started to hear those first shots. what went through your mind? >> first of all, capitol hill is a very safe place. i've been in office 19 years. i've never heard gunshot until yesterday. so it's without question a sobering thing. i took cover behind an suv. i noticed that the police officers had already started donning their flak jackets. and the gunfire was coming from the direction where i was headed, back to my office, so i took cover and then a few other senators were coming from that building and we took cover and then we obeyed the police officers who told us the best thing to do was get back to the capitol and we did that. >> obviously it was a chaotic scene and we're seeing some of the images of tourists that were around, all doing the same thing, taking those orders to shelter in place, move out of the way in some certain areas. obviously it's still under investigation for the motivation

of what led this young woman there, but certainly very chaotic yesterday in what is already a chaotic washington, d.c., because of the shutdown. while you're here, i want to switch to the fact that you are the deputy whip, you sit on the budget committee. we know john boehner has told his colleagues that he won't allow the government to default on the nation's debt coming up later this month. but when talking about the debt ceiling and saying that we won't default, isn't that putting the cart before the horse? don't we need to shore up what's going on with the government, getting up and running first? >> it seems to me that these two issues have now been merged. the temporary budget shutdown and the debt ceiling. if you think about it, the negotiators are looking at a short-term fix and then making another deal right after that. it just seems to me that the natural human impulse is going to be to merge those two issues. i think that's where we are, particularly as we go into the

weekend and into early next week. the time is now to work on both of these issues and i really wish that more of the parties were involved in actually give and take. it's going to take a little give and take on the part of democrats and republicans on the hill, but also the president is going to have to be involved in this. >> what do you think the final result will be? what is the right willing to accept if negotiations really do come to pass? >> well, i think, first of all, the house republican majority has indicated over and over that they are very interested in opening up parts of the government, funding parts of the government. much as we are supposed to do in an appropriations process. but long term on this debt ceiling issue, we need some structural changes in our mandatory spending to get us to a better place in terms of future generations and the

burden of debt that we're placing on them. >> when we speak about where we are with the budget situation and the shutdown in and of itself, those were agreed upon numbers. that sequestration level numbers. so aren't we -- haven't both sides already agreed on where we need to be for the budget, and now we then need to move past that to get to the debt ceiling issue, but this hurdle of getting over the budget is just the sticking pin being obama care? >> well, there are policy issues that need to be ironed out. we are where we are, and i don't think either side is going to totally abandon their position. i can just say from a republican standpoint we're not going to come away from this series of negotiations with nothing. and we don't expect the democrats to either. there needs to be give and take. and there are issues involving obama care where there is widespread agreement among the

american people and also among republicans and democrats in the congress. there are provisions that we can do to temporarily improve this act while i believe eventually public opinion will turn against it. >> senator -- >> we can repeal taxes. >> pardon me for interrupting. i want to get to john boehner is speaking right now. stand by for me, please. >> i was at the white house the other night and listened to the president some 20 times explain to me why he wasn't going to negotiate. sat there and listened to the majority leader in the united states senate describe to me that he's not going to talk until we surrender. and then this morning i get the "wall street journal" out and it says, well, we don't care how long this lasts because we're winning. this isn't some damn game. the american people don't want their government shut down and neither do i. all we're asking for is to sit

down and have a discussion and to bring fairness -- reopen the government and bring fairness to the american people under obama care. it's as simple as that. but it all has to begin with a simple discussion. >> good morning. you know, this week the american people have seen once again that obama care is not ready for primetime. a dysfunctional website is the least of that law's problems. and we've asked, as the speaker said, for basic fairness to the american people no special treatment for anyone under the law. and we are continuing to ask for that, no special treatments for us and no special treatment for special interests. now, the president continues to refuse to sit down with us republicans. and sadly, that is a hallmark of his presidency. in divided government, americans expect us to work together to solve problems.

this week the house passed legislation to open up parks and memorials, to reopen clinical trials for children with cancer, to allow the district of columbia to be locally funded and to fund veteran services and the national guard. today we're going to vote to open fema and the national weather service as we witness a growing storm in the gulf. and we're also going to vote to provide nutrition services for women and children in poverty. we plan to also later next week open up head start. and tomorrow we're going to vote to ensure that all furloughed federal employees know that they will receive their pay once this shutdown is over. now, 57 democrats have joined us this week to make sure that some of these critical functions of government are operating while we in washington are trying to work out our differences, and i want to thank them for that. and i'm hopeful that we can see more bipartisanship and start

talking so we can end uncertainty and restore the confidence in our economy and the faith in our government. >> this morning i read how the president cancelled his trip to asia. it is a perfect opportunity now that he's here that we can begin the negotiations. as the speaker laid out, senior white house administration says it doesn't matter how long we're shut down. i believe it does. i believe the 57 democrats who joined with us on passing the legislation to open government back up believes it matters as well. now is the time we get in the room, settle our differences and move this country forward. >> we continue to hear from the president that the way out of this shutdown is to basically give him everything he wants. he wants the easy way out without addressing the debt crisis, without addressing a

stagnant economy, without addressing an unaffordable health care law. we've heard the president say that the republicans are holding the u.s. hostage. he's said that he has bent over backwards to work with us. his words may sound good, but you know what, actions speak louder than words. and this is the president. this is the democrats in the senate that continue to tell us that they're not going to negotiate. they aren't even willing to come to the table. the republicans in the house are committed to keeping this government open. we are working every day to get this government open. and what we need is for a company log to begin with the democrats in the senate and with the president. these bills that we're working on, this legislation, it's an area where we should be able to start finding some common ground so that we can have a dialogue over the other big issues that

face this country, that the american people want to see us address. >> you know, i reminded the president the other night that he's famous for saying, well, you know in a negotiation, nobody gets 100% of what they want. we're not going to get it in this one either. yes, sir. >> mr. speaker -- [ inaudible ] would you be willing to look at a temporary deficit increase given there's very little time involved -- >> the issue right now is the continuing resolution to open the government. all we're asking for is for harry reid to appoint conferees so we can sit down and have a conversation about bringing fairness to the american people and getting our government open. >> mr. speaker, you've been quoted before as saying that you do not want the debt ceiling to be raised and you do not want

the u.s. to default. democrats are interpreting that as saying at the 11th hour that you'll want a clean debt ceiling bill. >> you've all heard me say this, going back over the last two or three years. our goal here wasn't to shut down the government. our goal here was to bring fairness to the american people under obama care. i don't believe that we should default on our debt. it's not good for our country. but after 55 years of spending more than what you bring in, something ought to be addressed. this year we'll have more revenue than any yore in the history of our country, and yet still have a nearly $700 billion deficit. and i think the american people expect if we're going to raise the amount of money we can borrow, we ought to do something about our spending problem and the lack of economic growth in our country. >> mr. speaker, is this shutdown, this showdown about the affordable care act?

is it about the budget deficit? why is the government shut down? >> we sent four bills to the united states senate. four different positions trying to soften our position to get the senate interested in keeping the government open and bringing fairness to the american people under obama care. it's as simple as that. >> last question. >> mr. speaker, we've seen a lot of reports about how there's sniping, personality sniping between you and democratic leader and the president. >> no, no. that's just not true. that is just -- listen, that is not true. now, most of you have dealt with me for some time. i might snipe at luke once or nice, all right, but i have very good relationships with all of my colleagues across the aisle. listen, i -- it's me. and maintaining these relationships is critically important. all i'm asking for is let's sit down like the american people would expect us and talk to one

another about getting the government open an dealing with the significant problems that we face. >> what about a grand bargain? >> harry reid said that you care more about your job. >> listening there to speaker john boehner surrounded by some of his other gop congressional members there talking after their brief meeting about where they stand. one of the comments that boehner made right there, this isn't some damn game, referring to the lack of negotiations going on right now. when we think about the simple discussion that needs to take place between -- when we talk about the simple discussion that needs to take place in washington, d.c., right now between the two sides, but we asked the -- the question that was asked there about personality sniping and speaker boehner said that, no, there is not personality issues going on in washington, d.c., at least not in front of the cameras. joining me live is former white house press secretary robert gibbs, who is now an msnbc contributor.

robert, it's great to have you here and i hope you were able to hear exactly what the speaker was saying there. do you agree with that? do you think there is not a personality sniping issue going on behind the scenes and basically who's going to win out this negotiation? >> i think this is primarily an ideological battle. i think it started as an ideological battle over obama care. it may not be an ideological battle over spending. i was struck, thomas, in listening to that press conference. it seemed as if those members and the speaker were not necessarily trying to convince the american public of their message but trying to convince themselves of their message. trying to convince themselves that, no, it's not us that want to shut down the government. no, it's not us that think this is a good thing. we are trying to do something and get this government back to being open. and i kind of felt like i was in some sort of self-help class because i think they were trying

to convince themselves of that. if we do some of the hostage language here, they have taken a hostage. now they keep calling the police and wanting to have a negotiation. and the police have said we're not negotiating. >> well, is john boehner -- robert, the only thing i can think of, is john boehner basically coming out there in a form of stockholm syndrome to the tea party and almost defending the captors that are holding his feet to the fire that aren't allowing him to negotiate and have the government running with just a clean cr. and if they were able to call an up or down vote that, would most likely go through. >> well, i am struck by the litany of things that we're now going to have votes on what should be open. >> winners and losers. >> right. you're rapidly -- but you're rapidly going to get to the point where, as you said, thomas, we should simply put a bill on the floor that says let's fund this thing for at least two months. let's just do this without any policy riders. and once we get past that and a debt limit, as the president said, then we can discuss the

long-term game in this. but i don't think -- i don't see any willingness and i don't think there should be any willingness on the president's part to get involved in a negotiation just to fund government for two months. i don't think they will do it. i am struck by the fact that i think republicans have an enormously hard time enunciating what their own end game is to this. i think the biggest development that's happened probably since the shutdown began was reports yesterday that speaker boehner won't let the government default. and i think all of that are the parameters that we head into this weekend with probably no end in sight to this until we bump up against that debt limit fight on october 17th. >> and that seems like we're putting the cart before the horse by not getting the original problem fixed before we have to get on to our second faux crisis, which is the debt debacle. but i just want to talk and point this out to everybody because there seems to be this strategy as we saw there with john boehner highlighting that they had passed four things along to the senate, this

piecemeal approach to fund the certain programs that democrats say they support but forcing them to reject it. take a look at rand paul and mitch mcconnell. they were caught discussing this in an open mike situation. it's never good to have an open mike, robert gibbs. just pay close attention to that. look at this. >> do you have a second? >> i'm all wired up here. >> i just don't see an end. i just go over and over again, we're willing to compromise, we're willing to negotiate. i don't think they poll tested we won't negotiate. i think it's awful for them to say that over an over again. >> yeah, i do too. i just came back from a two-hour meeting with them and that was -- that was basically the same view privately as it was publicly. >> i think if we keep saying we wanted to defund it, we fought for that but now we're willing to compromise on this, i think we're going to win -- i think -- i know we don't want to be here, but we're going to win this, i think. >> so that's an unfortunate private moment caught on tape between the two kentucky senators, but robert, what does that expose? >> again, i'm struck by the fact

that they seem to be trying to convince themselves that they're doing the right thing. you know, i know we don't want to be here, but i really think we can win this. like i said, it almost as if they are trying to convince the troops to continue to fight this fight. i think they will continue to get weary. i think you're going to see unfortunate video like that congressman snapping at a park ranger as if somehow it's not -- god bless that biker who yelled at the congressman and said the problem is not the park ranger, but the fact that there's not a budget. and we could put a clean cr on the floor and i would bet you by the time we were serving dinner, government would be open again. >> so meanwhile you were name dropped this week. i don't know if you saw this or not by republican senator lindsey graham on fox news. i just want to show it to everybody. take a look. >> robert gibbs told him, political adviser of the president, former press secretary to the president of the united states, gave the advice to the president adds follows. sit back and watch this.

well, that is the dumbest advice in the world if you believe the government shutdown is compromising our national security. >> all right. so what's your response to that? is that true? >> well, no, i actually said this on the network. i was asked what should the president do and i said sit back and watch. i will now pin a badge of honor on this jacket that lindsay has said i've given him the stupidest political advice. i leave it to the viewers to determine how we got into this mess and who has marched down a path with no end. but i don't think the president is going to negotiate and i don't think the president should negotiate. i think he should sit here until they come to their senses and open government back up again. but look, we have a hostage situation. in order to simply fund government as we do every single day, or we should do every single day, these guys have decided they want a series of things just for government to operate. and quite frankly, if we start

negotiating with 5-year-olds about whether they should clean their room because they want ice cream before they clean their room, then government is over. it's all over. and we shouldn't be involved in that. >> robert gibbs, great to have you on. thank you, sir. have a wonderful weekend. we'll be right back after this. . hey pam, you should take advil. why? you can take four advil for all day relief. so i should give up my two aleve for more pills with advil? you're joking right? for my back pain, i want my aleve. katy perrsure how many? town.ht? can we get tickets, please??? thank you, thank you, thank you! seriously? i get 2x the thankyou points on each ticket. the citi thankyou preferred card. now earn 2x the points on entertainment, with no annual fee. go to citi.com/thankyoucards

developing right now, listen to this one, alex rodriguez is suing major league baseball. rodriguez, who received a 211-game suspension from the mlb for his alleged role in the biogenesis performance-enhancing drug scandal claims major league baseball tried to destroy his career and his reputation. the suit claims that the commissioner, bud selig, tried to make an example out of a-rod to gloss over selig's past inaction regarding the use of performance-enhancing drugs for players. we're back with much more after this. help the gulf recover and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do.

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our spending problem and the lack of economic growth in our country. >> there we have it. house speaker john boehner just moments ago talking about fixing the nation's spending problems. there are new reports that john boehner has privately told republicans he won't let the nation go into default even if it means relying on democratic votes to strike a deal. only congress has the power to raise the debt ceiling and they have just a matter of days to make that happen. so if the u.s. does go into default, the consequences could be far worse than any government shutdown, they could be catastrophic. in fact every single one of us financially. jared bernstein is the former chief economist and chick adviser to vice president joe biden. jared, it's good to have you here. as we talk about the debt ceiling debate and that's just paying the bills, there are what we've spent, what the government has racked up, and we've gone through this process before. i mean we got downgraded because we took it to the line too far and we allowed people to believe that we were going to be slow

pay, no pay. >> yeah. well, first of all, you took away my opening line, which is -- that's okay, because it bears repeating. you very correctly identified something extremely important that the speaker just blew by. raising the debt ceiling means borrowing for spending that has already incurred. okay, let's get that straight. these are spending bills that the congress, including speaker boehner, has already signed. these expenditures are already on the books. so for him to say i'm not going to allow the government to raise the money it needs to meet its spending problem is exactly like a diner who just finished eating in a restaurant saying i'm not going to allow myself to pay the bill for the meal i just had. so let's be very clear what we're talking about here. secondly, yes, to not raise the debt ceiling in terms of economic damage, i have not yet met an economist on either side of the aisle who disagrees with

the following statement. that would be much, much worse than really anything we've contemplated so far, including a government shutdown. it would almost certainly reverse a -- i would say a moderate recovery into what could be a pretty robust recession. >> so when we look at this and know what the shutdown does and how we're so insular to what that does. jack lew wrote if the u.s. cannot pay its bills in full and on time, each and every american will be affected. explain, so we all know the shutdown, what that means, our government not getting along and everybody can't agree on this budget and we know why they're fighting. but explain what international eyes look to america as if we default on what we owe. >> sure. first of all, international markets, international eyes, as you put it, look to america as the largest and most reliable and safest economy on the

planet. our markets are the safest, our treasury bills are the safest investment. when people talk about credit spreads, that is they're trying to figure out why interest rates are in the economy, they're always looking at an interest rate of a corporation or a private institution compared to a treasury bill, because that's considered the safest investment in the world. that's why the dollar is the reserve currency. once we default, and i'm not saying once we go over the edge for 10 minutes or once we default for a day, once we default full stop, that status begins to seriously erode and it will have global economic implications. >> and everybody that's elected and running around d.c., they all know that. real quickly i do want to pass along the friday jobs numbers, they don't come out today because of the shutdown, correct? >> that's correct. you and i would usually be talking about payrolls and unemployment right now, but they don't come out because of the shutdown. that's particularly unfortunate right now. i was thinking of the federal reserve. the federal reserve actually needs these inputs to gauge its

next move. >> can we take a look at the markets to show everybody where we are. it's been interesting to watch the fluctuation go back and forth and the dow jones is up by a meager 27 points. but above that psychological 15,000 benchmark. jared, we'll leave it there. thank you, sir. i'm glad to know that i stole your opening line. that i'm in your head that much. >> that's scary for both of us. treasury secretary jack lew will join moderator david gregory on "meet the press" this sunday to discuss the shutdown, the debt ceiling and so much more. right now on capitol hill, the congressional progressive caucus is holding a rally. take a peek there, they're outraged over the government shutdown. here's independent bernie sanders of vermont speaking moments ago. >> real unemployment is close to 14 million. 20 million workers have no jobs. what congress should be doing today is putting people back to work. >> back to work!

>> we should be -- we should be creating millions of new jobs, not furloughing and laying off millions of federal employees. >> so meanwhile, house minority leader eric cantor announced that the house will vote tomorrow on a number of new mini funding bills. joining me now is republican congressman andy harris of maryland. sir, it's great to have you here. let's talk about these mini bills because what they're going to deal with is basically the fda, emergency disaster recovery, head start, nih. do you agree with that style of piecemeal legislation in a shutdown mode? basically ted cruz's approach? >> that's the approach we take during all appropriations, piecemeal but they should be done by october 1st. the senate has taken no action on any bills passed so they force continuing resolutions. i can't blame the senate for wanting a clean cr. it includes a special deal for

congress and their employees, the gold plated plan we found out about yesterday. but what we're going to do is solve problems. the democrats identified a problem at the nih. cancer trials for children aren't enrolling patients. well, we passed the bill to solve that. >> what appropriations bills were sent before october 1st. >> my gosh, we sent the defense, the military -- we sent homeland security, we sent four different appropriations bills over to the senate. the senate took action on none of them. that's why the defense department needed an emergency measure last week, which thank goodness mr. reid passed through the senate and the president signed. he could have -- he could have taken up the defense appropriations bill and done that, but none of the appropriations bills sent by the house to the senate have had floor action. >> why is that? >> you're asking the wrong person. ask the majority leader in the senate who schedules floor time on the senate. >> and what do you think if speaker boehner were to call a floor bill on passing a clean cr? how do you think that vote would go? >> that includes a special deal

for congress and their employees? no. we said no to that. we don't think there should be any special deals as part of the affordable care act. we think individuals should get the one-year delay on their tax just like the big corporations did. so no. that's not -- it's not reasonable. we're not for a special deal. we're not for any special deals. >> but you are for special deals when it comes to passing these mini bills which will then bik winners and losers federally. >> that's not a special deal. a special deal is when you tell congress and their staff that they get a special exemption from the president, they get a gold -- >> isn't it a special deal telling some federal employees they can come back from furlough and not others coming back from furlough, or certain sick kids can get treatment and not other sick kids? that's not a special deal? >> no, that's within how the u.s. government works. there's already -- and i beg to differ with, you know, your previous people on in this hour, but there are not millions of federal workers who are furlough e. it's just not true. that's not the number. and we've already picked and

chew choosed, sometimes fairly arbitrarily. for instance, they shut down the world war ii memorial. for heaven sake, it's an open air memorial. and yet they're paying park police who normally wouldn't be there to guard barricades to keep world war ii veterans out. i've got to tell you, the administration is already picking winners and losers. we're helping them to make some better decisions. >> but you are aware that the world war ii veterans have been able to get into those memorials? >> only because they break through barriers. they open barriers that are closed to americans. that's how they're getting in. they have to open up barriers with park police standing there guarding barriers. the lincoln memorial, never closed during a shutdown ever, is closed now. >> so you're upset with people that are doing their jobs at what is basically trying to keep people out of closed government places kind of like the way that congress is closing off america to working its government? >> the world war ii memorial, let's go out there and i'll show you, it is not a closed

government place. it's an open air. >> how about my government being open and working. i understand world war ii veterans and how about our government being open for everybody else in this country? >> this comes out of the white house to make it as painful as possible, to make a partial shutdown as painful as possible. it's wrong, it's bad, it's bad policy, it's wrong for americans. look, we're going to deal with it on the house day-to-day basis administrat . >> and so today what do you expect will happen? ? congressman, today what do you expect will happen? do you hope to see any budging room going back and forth? we saw speaker john boehner saying this isn't a game, this isn't a damn game were his exact words. what are you hopeful for seeing today isn today. >> what the american people expect is two parties who disagree come to the table and talk it out. we're hoping that mr. reid in the senate appoints conferees. we're hoping the president changes his stand on no negotiations and really takes an attitude more like president carter did or president clinton

did, his democrat predecessors when faced with a showdown, they actually talked with the people on the other side who had differing opinions. that's a big difference this year. i hope it stops this weekend. i hope that the senate and the president change their no negotiation status. that's not what americans expect. they expect us to come here and work together, not to say, no, we're not even talking. >> congressman andy harris, thanks for your time today, i appreciate it. >> my pleasure. i want to bring in today's agenda panel. josh rogin, a senior correspondent for the daily beast, molly ball and keli goff. molly, i want to start with you because you've been talking with certain republican lawmakers and there's this chatter about the potential of a grand bargain. so we're back at square one over something that everybody thought was extinguished. is that the way out for republicans? >> well, a lot of them seem to really think it is. as you know the grand bargain is this sort of dream that never dies in washington, hope springs eternal. they seem to think that they're in a blind alley, there aren't a

lot of options out of the current stalemate, although i think you could hear from what the congressman was just saying that there are some hopes that they can at least turn the politics of this around. but with democrats not budging, speaker boehner and some of those close to him seem to feel like one option might be for them to go big, to make a big deal on the budget, wrap in the debt limit since boehner certainly feels like he can't surrender twice, he can't surrender on the cr and then surrender again on the debt limit, do that with mostly democratic votes. so to do something like we've heard talk about for years that includes entitlement reform, tax reform, bring all those together. i think it would run into the same obstacles that it's run into in the past, however. >> right now, josh, we're seeing republicans are proposing 11 more mini bills for consideration beginning today. many of them have to do with security and intelligence director james clapper said on wednesday that we're at risk at this. both sides are supportive of the argument, but don't you think that this is a risky way to play, pitting each side against the other about who's really for

who? as i was saying to the congressman there, going through this process of picking winners and losers. >> right, you're absolutely right. what we've seen over the course of the week is both sides using national security and the threat of national security risk to make their arguments for whichever side they support in this debate. on wednesday we saw director of national intelligence james clapper say that there could be a higher risk of a terrorist attack and foreign countries recruiting our intelligence officers. on thursday we saw undersecretary of state wendy sherman saying there's nobody monitoring iran sanctions. today we see the republicans proposing piecemeal deals for intelligence and national security and the white house clearly rejecting all piecemeal deals. so they're both raising the stakes by tying national security and politics in a way that's detrimental to both national security and politics. they both think it will play their way and we'll have to see whether or not this is actually going to impact our ability to keep our nation safe and to keep the best and the brightest in our national security infrastructure. >> while we look very foolish

internationally, keli, let's talk about what this means domestically and for the fatigue that comes after this first week of being in shutdown mode, countdown clocks, listening to people talking about this in stw infuriating circles. do you think americans will start to understand what it means with hundreds of thousands of people furloughed, the impact of not getting a paycheck for certain americans that do depend on that paycheck while certain congress members who put this in action are getting their paychecks. >> 800,000 workers who are furloughed and aren't getting a paycheck and none of them include our members of congress. a lot of people said why should they get paid when the rest of us don't get paid when we don't do our jobs. over 100 are foregoing their paychecks. there's the euphoria of the party and the parents get back in town and the reality sets in. i think the reality is about to set in that president barack obama is not going to be on the ballot again and a lot of these members of congress blamed for

the shutdown are and a lot of these citizens who struggle with their mortgages without paychecks, they will feel some hurt in midterm elections. once that reality sets in, i think we'll see negotiating. >> do you think president obama is working from that position of knowing that his name does not have to appear on a ballot again? >> not just his name but hillary clinton will not be on the ballot either. so the republicans who are up in elections are going to start feeling the heat. i'd say in another couple days. the first couple days was the party. it's the voters who are going to be angry. >> just ask newt gingrich. guys, thanks. you can find more about our panel on msnbc.com, just follow the link to my name. we're back after this. no, let me get this. seriously. hey, let me get it. ah, uh. i don't want you to pay for this. it's not happening, honey. let her get it. she got her safe driving bonus check from allstate last week. and it's her treat. what about a tip? oh, here's one... get an allstate agent. nice! [ female announcer ] switch today

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♪ because an empty pan is a blank canvas. ♪ [ woman #2 ] to share a moment. ♪ [ man #1 ] to remember my grandmother. [ woman #3 ] to show my love. ♪ [ woman #4 ] because life needs flavor. ♪ [ woman #5 ] to travel the world without leaving home. [ male announcer ] whatever the reason. whatever the dish. make it delicious with swanson. [ woman #1 ] that's why i cook. new developments in that shocking road rage incident in new york city. the man considered the main suspect seen using his helmet to break the window of an suv is expected to surrender today. also today, the family of ed win mieses the biker who was run

over will hold a news conference with their attorney, gloria allred. and we're hearing from the wife of the driver of the suv. she said our sympathies go out to the injured motorcyclist and his family, however, we were faced with a life-threatening situation. a lot of people were wondering what would you do in this situation. anita allen teaches law at the university of pennsylvania. anita, it's great to have you here because a lot of us, we've all been talking in our newsroom, at home with our families, when you look at that video, you wonder how would i have handled that situation if i was behind that suv, if i had my child in that car. what's your first reaction, especially with your education and what you do for a profession? >> thank you. well, i see on the one hand a giant failure of individual and group responsibility on the part of the motorcyclists. they created a very special risk situation. they needed to have foresight about what might happen and how to handle it. on the other hand, i see a family faced with an emergency

who responded in a very tragic way. and i think that the debate or the conversation needs to be about how do we handle ourselves when we create special risks by virtue of gathering in groups, whether it's a breast cancer walk or a civil rights march or a motorcycle rally. how do we handle ourselves. on the other hand, if we're faced with an emergency, what level of self-defense and defense of others is appropriate for the situation. >> well, it seems like the confusing situation for this family is in the car not understanding why this group is targeting them to slow down. then the group itself after this suv gets away is confused by the fact that they think one of their members might have been violently injured and so there's a misinformation of the real story of what's going on here, but we can see where one of the bikers uses his bike to actually slow down their car in an effort to control the highway. but most of the other bikers around don't understand what had just played out. >> exactly. and whenever you're in a crowd,

you're never going to know all the facts. but what we do know is that there are proportionate and disproportionate ways to deal with someone you think has committed a crime or a tort. i believe that smashing the window and dragging a person out and beating them is a person out and beating them is a disproportionate response. it could be sometimes ethical and proper to detain someone until the police comes, doesn't justify a beating. the family is very confused as well. we do have this as part of our ethical, moral values, the notion of self-defense and defense of others. if you honestly believe your life is at risk, i do think it's appropriate to take some steps to protect your family. it's a tragedy when someone gets hurt but there's a justification to protect yourself what you perceive to be serious life threatening harm. >> really is a tragedy. that video got over 6 million

views. back with this friday's go and do. ♪ 'take me home...' ♪ 'i'll be gone...' ♪ 'in a day or...' man: twooooooooooooooooo! is that me, was i singing? vo: not paying for scheduled maintenance feels pretty good. no-charge scheduled maintenance now on every new volkswagen. that's the power of german engineering

>> time for go and do. the spotlight on those who try to improve the lives of others. it allows vets to tap into their creative side, painting, writing, not only a way to bond with each other but a way for ptsd to heal. great to have you here. we do want to sentenced people off into the weekend with something uplifting. this is a great segment to do that with. explain this concept. a lot of people wouldn't think vets and art would go together. >> two separate things. my background as a performing artist. in 2001 graduated from university of north carolina. trying to figure out what to do and ended up in the army as an arabic linguist, served, deployed, got out in 2008 and realized there was a connection. there were so many like minded

service members who loved the arts but put their love of the arts to serve. now an opportunity to get back into it as a career and form of expression. >> explain how this creative outlet is helping people to bond and heal. >> it's not just about veterans, but the civilian population. less than 1% of the u.s. population served in afghanistan and iraq since 2007. while it's about veterans expressing themselves and accessing a career in the art, it's about the civilian understanding. this is the way to do that in theater, music, film. >> what do you think is the best way important people who got involved to express themselves, fined-of- finding a connection, working through stresses they may have incurred while they were serving? >> sure. it's important to understand the veteran mind-set. veterans are all about the mission. it's about fruition, coming to a completion. we produce in the veterans

artist program, we challenge veterans to not only continue to serve in the capacity they can but to put their expressions out there. it's not something that intuitively people would put together but there's so much support. just by talking about it, putting it out there, it's something that can be healing. >> looking at the images now it's very cool. great to have you in today. thank you. >> thank you, thomas. >> do you know someone with the go and do spirit. we want to hear from you if you do. tweet us with the #goanddo. that's going to wrap up for me today. see you back at 11:00 a.m. monday, alex wagner with "now" next. across america people are taking charge of their type 2 diabetes with non-insulin victoza®. for a while, i took a pill to lower my blood sugar, but it didn't get me to my goal. so i asked my doctor about victoza®.

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